Introduction

We would first like to take this opportunity to thank GTR for their time and effort in consulting upon this major timetable change. Although we feel it is still short of what we would like to see for our Rail Users, thanks to the consultative approach it is far better than the initial proposals to our rail users benefit and thus GTR’s consultative approach has been appreciated.

The Redhill line generates around 10,000 journeys a day and this is around 10% of the total journeys from the Brighton Main Line (which when you consider Gatwick and Brighton – two major centres – are on the route this is a very large portion of other journeys).

We believe there would be far more journeys if the service was improved because of the high level of car usage from the greater Redhill area into London every day due to three reasons: –

• Slow and overcrowded trains from Redhill to London
• Expensive and full parking facilities at Redhill Station
• Relative proximity of Redhill area to London

RRDRUA represents Rail Users from the Redhill route including stations listed above and are very active with our membership of almost 2,000 daily commuters (around a fifth of total daily commuters)

The loss of fast services from Redhill to Victoria will be keenly felt and they will affect several thousand daily passengers. We are also concerned about capacity to Victoria having previously been 3 trains per hour in the high peak hour to just two now. This is the most difficult to accept in the general reduction of services at Redhill compared to the 2012 timetable (which is the last stable timetable to compare to). We still strongly feel that this half hourly all day fast service from Redhill to Victoria should be reinstated as a matter of urgency.

Phase 3 – Main Concerns and highlights

Key positives: –

• Reinstatement of after midnight service from Victoria (00:08)
• Sunday services to Reigate
• Saturday service mirroring off-peak weekday is excellent

Our key concerns with the current proposals for weekends and overnight services are: –

• Last trains from London to some parts of the Redhill Route
• Uneven service on Sundays to some stations
• Provision of Overnight Services to the Redhill route
• Journeys to Brighton

The Key changes we would like to see: –

• Services to Redhill route from Crossrail at Farringdon & Blackfriars continuing in the late evening at least 30 minute frequency seven days a week until at least 00:30 to match up with the new frequent all day service to these destinations
• Last service from Victoria at 00:08 to call additionally at Earlswood and Salfords
• Additional late night shuttle service to/from Reigate to connect off the 23:36 from Victoria at 00:20 and last Tonbridge service delayed to also connect with this train.
• Merstham on Sundays – better balancing of timetable hopefully with third train calling to break up long gap
• Overnight services at all stations on the Redhill route

Last Trains to Redhill Route from London

This best done on a station by station basis and then conclusions at the end. Obviously if our proposal for overnight services is accepted and implemented this section would change drastically but the thoughts below assume this is not the case.

Realistically we think last trains should be after 23:30 to allow time to get from entertainment events with 23:00 curfews (relatively common in London)

Redhill

Redhill is the core of the service along our route and what affects Redhill will also affect much else.

From London: –

• Victoria
  • Sun Night to Thur Night 23:36 & 00:08
  • Fri/Sat Night 23:36, 00:08 then 01:08
• London Bridge
  • Mon Night to Fri Night 23:30
  • Sat Night 23:30
  • Sunday 23:19 & 23:45
• Blackfriars (Thameslink)
  • Mon Night to Fri Night 23:24
  • Sat Night 23:24, then 00:31 & 01:01 Add calls at Redhill
  • Sunday 23:35, then 00:32 & 01:02 Add calls at Redhill

We are pleased to see the reinstatement of last train from Victoria at 00:08. We would like to see two minor changes to the Victoria proposals.

• 23:36 to run 3 minutes later at 23:39 to match the all day times to the Redhill route from Victoria (Reigate services leave at xx:09 & xx:39 all day – xx:36 is Arun Valley service time)
• 00:08 to Gatwick to run 1 minute later throughout – also so the xx:09 is constant all day

Blackfriars is a very odd situation with late night services some nights but not others. There is likely to be a change in pattern for our rail users returning from some of London late night, especially when Crossrail opens connecting both the West End and Stratford/East London to Thameslink. This will move some passengers away from the Victoria services and onto Thameslink services.

As this is encouraged during the day we believe there should be regular services into the late evening for returning passengers. Thus, we would like to see regular trains up until after Midnight from Thameslink to the Redhill route to provide the continuity from the all-day services, especially with Farringdon becoming a major interchange. Up to the point of that train, direct services to Redhill should have not more than a half hour gap. The hour plus gap on Sat/Sun nights is too long.

Half hourly until the 00:31 would be ideal every night.

Reigate

Reigate has a much-improved service but has always suffered from lack of late night connection. We think this timetable is better but there are still some issues

From London: –

• Victoria
  • Mon- Sat night 23:09
  • Sun night 21:05
• Blackfriars/London Bridge – last connection
  • Mon- Sat night 22:59/23:05 Change ECR
  • Sun night 20:50/20:56 Change RDH

Monday to Saturday, these are all too early. We appreciate that it may not be possible to run direct services after these times but would ask whether the last Reigate train could operate a later shuttle to connect with the 23:36 from Victoria to Horsham at Redhill (although we’d prefer this to operate from Victoria at 23:39).

We also don’t have late night GWR services which could provide this late connection. Currently however their last train operates from Redhill at 23:34 which would be too early to provide such a connection. There are however several later trains from Reading stopping at Reigate.

Tonbridge Line

Last train on weekdays from Redhill is the 23:59 all stations which connects with 23:09 from Victoria and 23:14 from Blackfriars.

On Saturday oddly, this departs 4 minutes earlier at 23:55 and doesn’t call at all stations. We would like to see the same last service on a Saturday as the rest of the week.

On Sunday the last train is 23:07 which seems to early and we would like to see a similar 23:59 service.

For all of these services we would like to see them put back until 00:25 to connect off the 23:36 from Victoria making a much better connection from London events than the 23:55 does.

Merstham

Every day the last calling train is the 00:08 from Victoria – this seems appropriate and provides a suitable level of service from this station.

Earlswood/Salfords

The last calling train most nights is the 23:14 Blackfriars & 23:20 London Bridge service (22:05 from Bedford).

We think the 00:08 from Victoria could easily call at these stations as it terminates at Gatwick.

However, we appreciate that the train is operated by Southern and would be one of only a few Southern services calling here. If this is a problem, we have also asked for later half hourly services from Farringdon/Blackfriars to Redhill route and some of these could call at these stations.

Horley

Similar to Earlswood and Salfords although the 00:08 does call. Horley has had overnight trains for many years so we are not sure why the new proposal removes this. However, our overnight proposals would reinstate this service.

Sundays: Uneven Services to Some stations

Sundays seems to be a bit of a temporary measure to get through a period until services can be ramped up some more on Sundays.

The regular half hourly service between Bedford and Gatwick provides a good service to Redhill, Earlswood, Salfords and Horley. However, there is an hour gap between the 21:07 from Bedford leaving central London and the first of the services from London Bridge at 23:19.

There are three options to fil this void: –

• A train from London Bridge at 22:45
• An additional train at 21:37 from Bedford
• The 21:28 from Cambridge to Three Bridges adding calls at Earlswood, Salfords and Horley

For Coulsdon South and Merstham there is an odd pattern during the day where the Thameslink Peterborough to Horsham and Southern’s Reigate to Victoria trains depart 10 minutes apart at these stations and then there is no train for 50 minutes.

This seems to happen because the alternate Cambridge train (to the Peterborough one) runs non-stop from Purley to Redhill. We think this needs to call at Merstham and Coulsdon South – however this will create a tight turn round time at Gatwick but something needs to be done to stop this very poor services at these two stations.

We are delighted to see Reigate get a Sunday service even if only hourly and hope in time this can be half-hourly like the rest of the week.

We are concerned by last train times both at Reigate and Tonbridge and have covered this above.

Train Services to Brighton

We are naturally disappointed to be losing our Direct service to Brighton on Sundays. However this has been offset weekdays by good connections at Gatwick.

This does not seem to be the case on Sundays but as we can’t see the GWR services this may be an error. Journey times to Brighton should not exceed 50 minutes and we hope this is the case.

Provision of Overnight Services

We have considered the overnight service from Bedford to Three Bridges and would like to see this call at Purley, Coulsdon South, Merstham, Redhill, Earlswood, Salfords and Horley. This has been a long term aim of many rail users along the route and the May 2018 timetable change is a good time to implement this.

To achieve this would need an extra train and train crew be utilised on overnight services and would mean a slower journey from Central London to Gatwick Airport.

We believe the improvements for staff working and living locally at Gatwick Airport plus the improvements for many rail users locally wanting overnight services from London would more than justify this change in service pattern.

We understand that Network Rail will need access to the line for overnight maintenance and hence we have proposed that two nights per week a bus service regularly replaces the overnight trains between Purley and Horley to enable this maintenance to take place. This will provide passengers with certainty through the week.

We have set out a more detailed proposal below:

Proposal for overnight services between London and Gatwick to call at local stations

Stations along the Redhill route do not have any overnight service from London, but London is both an entertainment and employment centre for the residents of East Surrey. When working late nights in London it is often hard to get home and often last trains leave before events finish.

Gatwick Airport is a major employer in the Surrey region and staff often have to make their way to the airport for shifts that start at 4am or finish at 2am. It would be appropriate to have a service through the night between Redhill route and the Airport.

Currently there is a bus service (100) to part of the area from Gatwick but nothing at all from London to the Redhill Area.

There is proposed from May 2018 that there will be an overnight service from Bedford, through central London and East Croydon and then fast to Gatwick Airport running every 30 minutes.

Our proposal is that it simply stops at Purley, Coulsdon South, Merstham, Redhill, Earlswood, Salfords and Horley on its way to/from Gatwick Airport. We estimate this will add 14 minutes each way to the journey time.

Benefits

Journeys made available between Redhill route stations and the airport will benefit both the employees at the airport who know they can always get a train to work and the customers of the airport can get there for early flights or return home by train on late flights.

The knowledge that there is a train every 30 minutes makes this a good choice for passengers when a train is delayed.

Journeys made from London to Redhill route stations will run through the night and will not only benefit residents of the area that there will be an all-night service when enjoying entertainment in London but also for London workers in the restaurant and entertainment industries as they can be sure of getting home after work.

Costs

The extra journey time on the proposed services will mean that an additional train set would be required to be used for overnight trains as the timings at Three Bridges change. Similarly, at least one extra driver and on-board manager would be required every night to cover these services.

It is unlikely to affect existing passengers to Gatwick, as at that time of night the service existing is more important than the speed of the service. A 15 minute extra journey time is unlikely to cause much inconvenience for airport passengers.

It would be expected that CDS/MHM/ERD/SAF & HOR would be unmanned at this time of night but there would anyway be minimal manning at Purley and Redhill all night.

As the railway is already there, signalman are operating it and the stock purchased, it is just the extra cost of running a single unit that makes this service possible.

Complication for Maintenance

Network Rail need to maintain the line between Purley and Earlswood through the Merstham tunnels and need clear working time to do this. So a compromise is needed to provide this time.

We expect they could do the maintenance with two nights of 4/5 hours clear every week with regular planned maintenance. It may also mean they can reduce weekend work on the line as well.

To do this we propose that the Purley to Redhill/Earlswood section is closed after the 23:09 Victoria to Reigate and 22:05 from Bedford (23:21 LBG) which both connect for last train to Tonbridge. This would be set to happen every Monday and Tuesday night to allow Network Rail regular access and can get the appropriate equipment into the area for two consecutive nights per week.

If the line is closed after this then the route will be available to Network Rail for just under 5 hours from midnight to 5am to close the line and work intensely (probably means around 3-4 hours actual work as setting up and clearing takes time). First train in the morning leaves Purley at 05:10 and Redhill at 4:49 although this could be part of the overnight buses. The gap is similar to that left by the Victoria closure so we would expect it would be good for Network Rail to do their work.

It would affect GWR services as well. Their current final service from Gatwick passes Redhill around the same time as the Reigate train. The last train from Reading may need truncating some nights depending on the work required at Redhill station itself each night but as GWR trains are diesel they don’t need power and thus some nights may be able to pass by without affecting the works.

To replace the trains, a bus service will need to run from Purley. The timings of the bus should leave Purley every 30 minutes to connect with the trains. Each train should get initially a single bus calling all stations to Gatwick and return. We estimate it would take two hours to cycle the buses and thus with a driver’s break probably needs 5 buses to run.

Even though the trains can still call at Horley, it is better that the passengers are taken straight to Gatwick to avoid the difficulties of timing the bus to a train – the two services (train and bus) can work independently at the Gatwick end.

When Network Rail have access GTR would be able to run the service with one less unit of stock.

For anyone who is completing the Timetable Consultation Response for the Redhill area here are our guidance notes for responding to the questions.

Of course, feel free to amend or adjust as you prefer. Importantly you don’t need to answer every question as reflected below.

The full timetable consultation information can be found on the Southern Railway website.

And the link to complete the response to southern’s Timetable consultation is https://www.surveymonkey.co.uk/r/2018timetableconsultation

Question 14:

Do you support proposals to approach engineering works differently? Please select all options you support.

Reduced frequency on some routes after 2300 on Weekdays and Saturdays

Earlier last trains on Mondays, Tuesdays and Wednesdays on some routes

Later first trains on Sunday mornings on some routes

I don’t support proposals to change the current engineering works hours

Any further comments on this proposal?

RRDRUA supports the principle of setting specific times each week for maintenance. For Example, we would be happy if on Monday and Tuesday nights the 23:02 from Victoria was the last train to Redhill on Monday and Tuesday nights, provided that bus services would be provided for later passengers to return from London as shifts do not change just because the Railway is closed.

However, we would like this to reciprocated by additional late night services to Redhill Line. For example, later services to Reigate, Merstham, Earlswood and Salfords plus overnight London to Gatwick trains calling at Redhill right through the night on other days. Additionally, earlier morning services to Gatwick from Merstham, Redhill, Earlswood and Salfords arriving at Gatwick before 5am for shift workers.

Question 15:

Do you support the proposed frequency increase for Thameslink services at Luton, Luton Airport Parkway, Harpenden, St Albans City, Radlett, Elstree & Borehamwood, Mill Hill Broadway and West Hampstead Thameslink with the introduction of a new semi fast service?

Yes or No

Any further comments on this proposal?

This question does not affect our services

Question 16:

Do you support the proposal for Thameslink services on the North Kent line serving Greenwich, Abbey Wood, Dartford and Medway Towns?

Yes or No

Any further comments on this proposal?

We are concerned that we are constantly informed our services cannot be increased because of the need to avoid flat crossings at Stoats Nest and Tinsley Green, yet here is a proposal that will create another flat junction that will affect reliability of our trains.

It seems strange that an issue that affects us does not affect other rail users

Question 17:

Do you support the proposed increase in frequency of Thameslink services on the Catford Loop line?

Yes or No

Any further comments on this proposal?

This question does not affect our services

Question 18:

Do you support the proposal for Thameslink Maidstone East services to operate via London Bridge instead of Elephant & Castle restoring train services previously withdrawn in 2009?

 Yes or No

Any further comments on this proposal?

This question does not directly affect our services. We are though pleased that the number of trains between Thameslink core and London Bridge is remaining with the loss of Caterham/Tattenham trains.

Question 19:

On balance do you support the retention of Caterham and Tattenham Corner services as part of Southern South London Metro?  Proposed improvements for the Caterham and Tattenham Corner routes include longer 10 carriage trains and other off peak enhancements (full details in Southern South London Metro section). 

Yes or No

Any further comments on this proposal?

This question does not affect our services directly but it seems sensible for the passenger numbers and to relieve pressure between Windmill Junction and Thameslink.

Question 20:

Any other comments in relation to the expanded Thameslink network from 2018?

The principle of through trains form London is accepted as it increases the ability to create more services. We are disappointed that this proposal does not increase services through the Redhill Lines.

Comments 21 to 33

Specific comments can be made on individual services within each sub route in the survey.

TL1/2 – RRDRUA would support the overnight service between Bedford to Gatwick take on the stopping pattern of TL2 not TL1 south of London. That is to call at Norwood Junction, East Croydon, Purley, Coulsdon South, Merstham, Redhill, Horley and Gatwick to provide a commuting train service for shift workers at Gatwick Airport. This is an important need which there is no public transport option currently.

TL2 & TL5 Stopping pattern between Gatwick and East Croydon. We appreciate the careful planning of the stopping sections of these trains. We would recommend this be swapped over.

That is TL2 should stop at East Croydon, Coulsdon South, Merstham, Redhill and then Gatwick Airport. Then TL5 should stop at Norwood Junction, East Croydon, Purley, Redhill, Earlswood, Salfords, Horley and Gatwick Airport.

This would benefit Earlswood, Salfords and Horley customers who can get direct services to their local main town centre at Crawley via the Horsham trains which requires a change if the trains are the other way around. It also provides a Service from Norwood Junction and Purley to Crawley.

Question 28:

The proposed Thameslink service between Cambridge and Maidstone East is only able to serve either St Mary Cray or Swanley due to insufficient time to enable the train to arrive in time to start its return journey from Maidstone East. Please select which station you would prefer the train to call.

St Mary Cray or Swanley

This question does not directly affect our services.

Question 34:

Do you support proposals to change Sunday services between London Victoria and the West Coastway, to enable faster journeys between London, Chichester and Portsmouth similar to weekdays?

Yes or No

Any further comments on this proposal?

This question does not directly affect our services.

Question 35:

Cooksbridge and Plumpton

Do you support retaining the current hourly service at Plumpton?

Do you support reducing the current hourly service at Plumpton to a two hourly to enable a two hourly service at Cooksbridge on Mondays to Fridays, Saturdays and Sundays?

Any further comments on this proposal?

This question does not directly affect our services.

Question 36:

Please provide feedback on this proposal to improve the overall journey times between London, Eastbourne, Bexhill and Hastings

I support this proposal 

I don’t support this proposal 

Any further comments on this proposal?

This question does not directly affect our services.

Question 37:

In relation to trains between Lewes and Seaford, which option do you prefer? 

Regular peak service between Brighton and Seaford with direct London to Seaford trains discontinued.

Continuation of direct London to Seaford peak trains with a gap of one hour between Brighton and Seaford.

Any further comments on this proposal?

This question does not directly affect our services.

Question 38:

Do you support the proposal to operate Southern Mainline services between London Victoria and Hastings only?  If this proposal is supported these services would be replaced by an alternative Southeastern train from London Charing Cross which would be extended to and from Ore.

 Yes or No

Any further comments on this proposal?

This question does not directly affect our services.

Q Question 39: Proposals effecting Redhill Station

Do you support this proposal?

Yes or No

Any further comments on this proposal?

We have taken representation extensively locally and cannot support a proposal that weakens the service from 2012.

For Redhill it means a 40% increase in Journey times to Victoria which is not acceptable. The market to Victoria and London Bridge/Thameslink is very different and we forecast very little change as a result of the Thameslink services being able to connect with Crossrail at Farringdon.

Passengers from Redhill use the Victoria services not only for Victoria and its connections to the West End but also to connect with South West Trains at Clapham Junction.

We have calculated that the journey time to Oxford Circus from Redhill currently 46 minutes but with the amendments suggested would be 57 minutes via Victoria or 55 via Farringdon & Crossrail both significantly longer than current.

Redhill has had a half-hourly service to Victoria taking 28 minutes in each direction since the 1990’s and it is an established travel pattern. GTR’s own figures of journeys from Redhill (top 6 destinations) indicate that over half of journeys from Redhill would use the Victoria service. Thus it is vital that Redhill has a Victoria service that takes only 28 minutes from Redhill to Victoria. Millions of journeys every year would be affected by this change.

Additionally, the loss of South Coast services has been severely felt in Redhill and the need for these to be replaced is very high. A key improvement expected in the 2018 timetable proposals is an all-day service from Redhill along the Brighton Line and that this has not been included is very disappointing. Especially with the loss of Arun Valley services.

The timetable is focussed on providing main line services to London without considering the many journeys that occur between intermediate stations and to the employment centres at Gatwick, Crawley, Haywards Heath and Brighton, plus the high level of leisure journeys to Brighton. Many potential customers are being forced into cars for the journeys adding to congestion where it is not needed.

We would suggest two alternatives: –

Alternative 1 – Extra half-hourly Train along Redhill Line

The Brighton to London Victoria Southern service should call at Redhill, providing a fast service from Redhill to London Victoria half-hourly daily including evenings (except Sundays where it becomes Hourly and the other half-hour would be provided by either Littlehampton or Portsmouth Services)

If this alternative is taken then all other services could remain as planned, except that we would swap calling patterns between Gatwick and London Bridge from the Peterborough trains and the Bedford trains from Gatwick for convenience of Earlswood to Horley passengers to get to Horsham as per response to Questions 21 to 33.

Alternative 2 – Maintain Calling pattern on Reigate/Tonbridge services between Redhill and East Croydon

This would mean that Merstham and Coulsdon South stops would need to be picked up by Thameslink services to London and the benefits of removing that is lost.

However, we believe strongly that the slower service should be the 4 trains per hour London Bridge/Thameslink services as the regular nature of the service brings benefit of less waiting times at stations so overall the effect is less. The Reigate/Tonbridge service should be the faster service from Redhill to London. Please see our views on this service in Question 43.

RRDRUA believes that Alternative 1 is the preferred solution as it solves all service provisions and also means the service will be improved from 2012, which the GTR proposals are not.

Q Question 40: Proposals affecting train services serving Merstham and Coulsdon South

Do you support this proposal?

Yes or No

Any further comments on this proposal?

This proposal has a neutral affect. Coulsdon South and Merstham customers are split pretty much 50/50 between wanting London Bridge/Thameslink or Victoria, so to swap from 4 trains per hour to London Bridge to 2 trains to London Bridge plus 2 to Victoria is going to please some and annoy others.

The turn up and go aspect of the four trains per hour to London Bridge (and now Thameslink) will be lost and this will probably be missed by many passengers. However, this is offset by having a Reigate service which will be useful for college students and a Victoria service for off-peak passengers who prefer Victoria.

We slightly prefer 4 trains per hour to London Bridge/Thameslink supplemented by a regular Peak service to Victoria including some shoulder peak trains (e.g. at least two trains after off-peak fares start)

Q Question 41: Proposals affecting train services serving Horley, Salfords and Earlswood

Do you support this proposal?

Yes or No

Any further comments on this proposal?

We agree with this proposal but it counteracts against our disagreement with the proposals for Redhill to Victoria trains.

Our view is that London Bridge trains should call at Merstham and Coulsdon South.

We do though believe that there is a strong traffic between Earlswood, Salfords and Horley towards Three Bridges, Crawley and Horsham and to disconnect them would not be in the best interests of passengers. Thus, RRDRUA proposes that the Peterborough to Horsham service should call at Earlswood, Salfords and Horley and the Bedford to Gatwick Airport service should run fast. It would be sensible to swap the stopping patterns north of Redhill too.

We appreciate that both sets of trains call at Earlswood, Salfords and Horley during the peak.

We think it is also important that Earlswood and Salfords have a service to Victoria during the day and we have proposed this in the Reigate service provision in Question 42.

Q Question 42: Proposals affecting train services at Purley

Do you support this proposal?

Yes or No

Any further comments on this proposal?

We oppose the new fast service from Purley to Victoria as it means our fast service to Victoria needs to call at Purley which has a disastrous consequence on Journey times from Redhill.

We support the idea but not the application.

Q Question 43:

Do you have any specific comments in relation to services between Redhill and Tonbridge?

Redhill to Tonbridge services are poorly used in general and mostly only between Redhill and Tonbridge. We don’t see any need to provide additional services here and considerations should be given for Network Rail to build a platform 4 at Redhill saving the need for Tonbridge services terminating at Redhill crossing the main lines.

Q Question 44: Reigate

Which option do you support?

Regular shuttle (up to six trains per hour when combined with Great Western Railway) connecting with regular Thameslink and Southern trains to and from London

Direct peak services to London Victoria at half hourly intervals joining with other carriages at Redhill (passengers for London Bridge would be required to change at Redhill or East Croydon)

Any further comments on this proposal?

Reigate station is poorly served by London Trains. Since 2008 when an hourly service was added to London Bridge the usage has since doubled.

RRDRUA has surveyed its members who live in Reigate and found just over 50% living in Reigate drive to Redhill/Earlswood or Merstham because of the unreliability of service at Reigate. If a better service could be provided at Reigate around 65% of those driving would walk to Reigate station and catch the train from there.

We have also surveyed the shuttle idea, the problem with existing Shuttles is that they get cancelled and all services to Reigate end up being lost. RRDRUA thus totally opposes the use of additional shuttle services.

RRDRUA also believes the service from Reigate to London should be half-hourly throughout the day including evenings and hourly on Sundays. This we believe from our research would increase passenger numbers at Reigate by almost 100% and remove traffic from the roads around Redhill and Reigate plus reduce demand for parking at Redhill station.

This can be achieved by using splitting of trains from Victoria at Redhill station. As stated before the Victoria to Redhill train should call only at Clapham Junction and East Croydon before Redhill. Once at Redhill it should split, each Half hour the front portion should go to Reigate providing a half hourly service to Reigate from London. In the first half hour, the rear portion should extend to Tonbridge maintaining the existing service, in the second half hour the rear portion should extend to Gatwick, calling at Earlswood, Salfords and Horley providing a new hourly fast service from these stations to Victoria all day every day.

On Sundays, this service should reduce to Hourly providing a Tonbridge/Reigate to Victoria service only.

This proposal is an actual improvement to services from the Redhill Line, meaning Reigate gets the half-hourly all day service it deserves for the passenger numbers (much smaller stations get better services) and Earlswood/Salfords get a fast service to Victoria 6 days a week.

This proposal also reduces a significant problem at East Croydon and Redhill where a 4 coach train arrives from Reigate and is not sufficient for the passengers waiting, by taking up this proposal all services will be 8 coaches and mean that passengers are more likely to be able to get on the service.

There are additional comments regarding the provision of Platform 3 at Reigate in our general addendum.

Question 45 and 46: New Cross Gate removal

These proposals would remove the direct Monday to Saturday off peak journey opportunities from Gatwick Airport, Horley, Salfords, Earlswood, Redhill, Merstham, Coulsdon South and Purley to and from New Cross Gate. Passengers wishing to travel between the affected stations and New Cross Gate would be required to change trains at Norwood Junction.

Which station do you travel from?

How often do you travel between your station and New Cross Gate?

Never Daily Weekly Monthly Couple of times a year

What is your ultimate destination?

Any further comments on this proposal?

Generally, the removal of this connection from Redhill Line services is not supported. The connection at New Cross Gate provides a good connection to London Overground services up to Canary Wharf.

The connection to these services at Norwood Junction is not as good. There is less than half the London Overground services at Norwood Junction compared to New Cross Gate so onward connection is weaker, plus there are 5 intermediate stations that would not have to be passed through from Norwood Junction. Thus, Norwood Junction stops are significantly less useful than the New Cross Gate stops.

We would suggest that the Caterham/Tattenham to London Bridge services call at Norwood Junction and the Bedford to Gatwick services call at New Cross Gate.

Question 47:

Which option do you support?

Revising evening and Sunday services to be consistent with the proposed Monday to Saturday daytime frequency which would include direct trains between London Victoria, Reigate and Tonbridge

Retain the current evening and Sunday train frequency with direct trains to Bognor Regis (evenings and Sundays) and Brighton on Sundays only. Trains to Reigate and Tonbridge would be provided as shuttle trains starting from and terminating at Redhill

Any further comments on this proposal  

We agree with the principle that the Monday to Friday daytime service is repeated in the evenings, in particular to Victoria from Reigate and Tonbridge. Our view is that during the evenings and on Saturdays that Reigate needs a half hourly service to London allowing the residents of Reigate to return home easily after theatre in the evenings or days out. On Sundays, we believe this service could be reduced to hourly and interspersed with a through Brighton Service very half hour.

The Sunday fast service to Victoria could be provided half hourly by a train from Reigate/Tonbridge alternating with one from Brighton.

There is a lot of leisure travel to Brighton from Redhill Line on a Sunday and loss of direct services would not be welcome.

Question 48:

Do you have any specific comments in relation to services on Coastway West routes?

Comments

This question does not directly affect our services.

Question 49: Proposals for increased train services between Brighton and Lewes

Do you support this proposal?

Yes or No

Any further comments on this proposal?

This question does not directly affect our services.

Question 50: Proposals affecting train services between Brighton and Seaford

Do you support this proposal?

Yes or No

Any further comments on this proposal?

This question does not directly affect our services.

Question 51: Proposals for faster journeys between Brighton, Lewes, Eastbourne, Hastings and Ore

Do you support this proposal?

Yes or No

Any further comments on this proposal?

This question does not directly affect our services.

Question 52:

Which option do you support?

Operate longer electric trains between Brighton and Eastbourne with connections to and from a two carriage diesel train between Eastbourne and Ashford International.

Operate longer electric trains between Brighton and Hastings with connections to and from a two carriage diesel train between Hastings and Ashford International

Continue to operate through trains between Brighton and Ashford International with the understanding that current capacity issues on the route are unlikely to be addressed in the short and medium term.

Any further comments on this proposal

This question does not directly affect our services.

Question 53:

Do you have any specific comments in relation to services on Oxted routes?

This question does not directly affect our services.

We do though have concern about the East Grinstead services going to Victoria as it means 12 coach trains crossing Windmill Bridge over several flat crossings. Consideration should be given to East Grinstead trains diverting to London Bridge to avoid these conflicts.

Question 54:

We propose to introduce a new all day direct train service between Epsom, Sutton, West Croydon and London Bridge, increase the train frequency between Sutton and Epsom Downs (from 1tph to 2tph all day) and continue four trains per hour between Sutton, West Croydon, Norbury and London Victoria? To enable this we will need to remove the current direct train services between Sutton, West Croydon, Crystal Palace and Streatham Hill to enable these improvements. Do you support this?

Yes or No

Any further comments on this proposal?

This question does not directly affect our services.

Question 55:

Do you support the proposal to improve overall performance of the network by reducing the number of Monday to Friday and Saturday daytime trains between London Victoria and Selhurst via Norbury from 6tph (every 10 minutes) to 4tph (every 15 minutes)?

Yes or No

Any further comments on this proposal?

This question does not directly affect our services.

Question 56 and 57 – please answer as part of question 45 and 46 (repeated):

These proposals would remove the direct Monday to Saturday off peak journey opportunities from Gatwick Airport, Horley, Salfords, Earlswood, Redhill, Merstham, Coulsdon South and Purley to and from New Cross Gate. Passengers wishing to travel between the affected stations and New Cross Gate would be required to change trains at Norwood Junction.

Which station do you travel from?

How often do you travel between your station and New Cross Gate?

Never Daily Weekly Monthly Couple of times a year

What is your ultimate destination?

Any further comments on this proposal?

See answer to Question 45/6.

Question 58:

Are you in favour of Monday to Friday and Saturday daytime trains between Streatham Hill, Crystal Palace and Norwood Junction serving East Croydon, Purley and Coulsdon Town instead of West Croydon?

Yes or No

Any further comments on this proposal?

This question does not directly affect our services.

Question 59:

Are you in favour of introducing a faster all day service between Caterham and London Bridge instead of a stopping service via Sydenham?

Yes or No

Any further comments on this proposal?

This would be a positive move to encourage usage of the Caterham branch which has a large local population..

Question 60:

Do you support the diversion of stopping trains between New Cross Gate and Norwood Junction via Sydenham from East Croydon to West Croydon instead?

Yes or No

Any further comments on this proposal?

This question does not directly affect our services.

Question 61:

Do you support the diversion of stopping trains between London Bridge and Selhurst via Peckham Rye, Tulse Hill and Norbury from West Croydon to East Croydon, Purley and Caterham instead?

Yes or No

Any further comments on this proposal?

This question does not directly affect our services.

Question 62:

Do you have any other specific comments in relation to South London Metro services?

This question does not directly affect our services.

Question 63:

Which proposal do you support?

Extend services to or from Purley or Coulsdon Town

No longer operate beyond Selhurst

The proposed change does not affect me

Any further comments on this proposal?

Whilst not recommending it we wonder if instead of Coulsdon Town extension to Reigate or Gatwick via Redhill might resolve other issues.

Question 64:

Do you have any specific comments in relation to West London Line services?

This question does not directly affect our services.

These are the presentation copies from the meeting, more detailed versions with RRDRUA response to proposed Timetable will follow.

Presentation from Govia Thameslink Railway

You can also download a download a PDF of the presentation here.

Presentation from RRDRUA delivered by Steve Trygg

You can also download a PDF of the presentation here.